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Pro Domme Submission vs. Lifestyle Submission

by RGray1981 @ Wednesday, Jun. 20, 2007 - 07:51:57 am

Per Ms Victoria's instruction I shall begin a new phase here on my web log. She wishes me to address issues of interest to other submissives; to share what I have learnt over the past seven years with those who may be striving to find answers.

I shall begin with a comparison between what it is to visit a Professional Dominatrix verses what it means to live in service to a Lifestyle Dominant Woman.

I have lived seven years in a FLR (Female Led Relationship). I entered Ms Victoria's household in May 2000 under a training contract and then after training graduated to become Her gamma submissive. (She already had an alpha and a beta upon my enrollment in training) As the years have past there have been draumatic changes (too intricate and detailed to explain it all in this entry) and today I am Her alpha submissive. Furthermore, we are expecting a child in July. I could not be more content and joyful in my circumstance.

I also must confess that I personally have not had the experience of sessioning with a Professional Dominatrix. So what follows is based on my personal knowledge as well as the information I have gleaned from other lifestyle submissives who have frequented Pro Dommes in the past.

My understanding is that a meeting is arranged, important issues are discussed regarding the arrangement (eg: limitations, tribute, what the boy desires and whether or not the Domme is willing to facilitate his fantasies), and ultimately a scene is played out between the two of them. How often they meet varies.

In my humble opinion the two settings are completely different. I can not stress this enough. The dynamics involved are nearly opposite when compared.

In sessioning with a Pro Domme, one is paying for a service instead of being a servant. There is little if any true relationship between the Domme and Her client other than a professional one, as it is afterall, a business arrangement.

Like it or not, the boy is in the position of ultimate authority as he initiates the sessions. He wants something and expects Her to provide it. Essentially he has paid tribute for a service to have his needs met. Apart from a return customer, I cannot imaging that he is valued as a true sub would be. In my opinion this sort of arrangement can not compare to the joys of true service. It is a transaction.

In living and serving a Lifestyle Dominant Woman the boy goes through a process of learning how to earnestly give of himself; he begins the journey of becoming Her beloved and trusted servant. The Dominant is in full control. She guides and directs and the boy obeys. There is potential for a very deep interaction between the Mistress and Her boy that may span years, and perhaps a lifetime if the boy is fortunate to have found favour with a Compatible Dominant.

I see Lifestyle D/s as far more personal and indepth. You are living your daily life, not just a few hours, in service; day-by-day and moment-by-moment channelling your energies into pleasing Her.

Of course conditions must be right. Care must be taken both on the part of the Dominant and the submissive to insure that the play stays within the boundaries of the SSC ethos. A trust must be established and over time strengthened. I will attempt to outline in detail the principle responsibilities of Dominant and Submissive in a later posting.

I am sure moving into a lifestyle relationship would be quite an adjustment for a boy who is accustom to using the services provided by a Professional Dominatrix. He will have to relinquish the control he is accustom to having with the Pro Domme and endeavor to delve deeper, to present himself to the Lifestyle Dominant as a pure and willing vessel. He will have to learn everything from Her intonations to Her preferences.

But the rewards... indeed the rewards are great for both parties. In my own case, words can not adequately describe the joy I have found in serving Ms Victoria. I have no doubt that this is where I am meant to be and shall remain for as long as She is pleased to possess me.

I hope that perhaps this may be of help. If there are any questions I would be happy to entertain them via comments here or if privacy is desired, via the blog site's personal message system.

Respectfully,
Ryan

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LandersUKLandersUK pro
2007-06-20 @ 08:21

Hey Ryan...

Excellent post but...

What is SSC?

I can imagine that a full D/s relationship is A LOT more rewarding than a paid one off visit but as they say, each to their own!

As the Alpha male is Michael the gamma?

Would you be taking other gamma males into your household for MsV and yourself to teach and guide?

Sorry if I'm being too nosey!

P.S. Careful putting your email address in a post. Spambots pick it up and you end up with LOADS of spam! I did it once! Instead put a an email link in OR ask people to PM you! I hate Spam!

RGray1981RGray1981 pro
2007-06-20 @ 08:50

Thank you, Landers. :)

SSC is an acronym for Safe, Sane and Consensual. It is a basic guideline for "play" within the BDSM community. For more information have a look at Safe, Sane and Consensual on Wiki. (link below)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe%2C_sane_and_consensual

I agree with you, in that a full on submissive life is not for everyone. I would not begin to suggest that every man is suited to it. It is often a peculiar and varied dance. Relinquishing control to a Female Dominant is not usually a natural male instinct, lol. It involves a great deal of self control and conditioning, amongst other things, to live it 24/7.

Michael is currently still in training. Full training with MsV involves a two year live-in commitment which Michael will complete in February of 2008. At such time he will make a choice for his future path. If he continues on course Ms will likely offer him a beta position here. There are other offers on the table from outside our household that he will have to consider and then with all the facts before him, make an informed choice about his future.

MsV has had a 20 year history in the field of refining young potential submissives into proper and respectable ones. She has confided that Michael is likely the last of the line as She intends to retire from Her training pursuits and simply live what She believes.

Thank you for the warning about the email. I will withdraw it.

Many Thanks,
Ryan

sidejumpsidejump [Member]
2007-06-20 @ 09:09

Hi Ryan
nice to see a post from you, it has been a while. it is very well written, you have obviously put a lot of thought into it. It is a little bit similar to the post I did about paying for sex. There really can be no comparison, but it can fulfill a need, and is as you say, pure business. I guess though in a Dom / sub relationship it does of course make the line fuzzy with regard to who is really the dominant one. : )

RGray1981RGray1981 pro
2007-06-20 @ 11:35

Thank You for Your comment, MsSidejump. It is nice to 'see' You as well.

I see the Pro situation as rather clear cut. A business transaction occurs. The boy is the customer. He asks for certain things to be played out in a scene with the Dominant for the price of a tribute. She can accept or decline his wishes and thus his custom. If She accepts then the focus is on giving him what he paid for.

Lifestyle Submission for the boy is not about getting what you want when you want it. You are engaged in a intricate relationship of trust in Her to know what is best for you, better than you know yourself. A boy may respectfully petition or with permission present his views on a matter, but the ultimate decision is in Her hands. Some lifestyle situations are not 24/7 like the one of which I am a part. Even so, there is a surrendering of self and of one's own 'wants' to the will of another.

If I am not careful I will write my next post right here, lol. Thank You, Ms, for reading and commenting.

Ryan :)

AbileneAbilene pro
2007-06-20 @ 13:06

Ryan,

Please thank Ms V for me on this new angle she is having you take.

I will continue to read with interest your thoughts and views. I do not feel it matters much that I am female and you are male. The bottom line is the need/desire to submit.

Abi x

RGray1981RGray1981 pro
2007-06-20 @ 15:55

Abilene, thank you for your very kind words and your interest.

We are a different breed are we not? We who have not only the desire but also the true need to submit. We who feel a calling to serve and honour and cherish our Dominants with all that we are.

With regard to my blog writings, I should issue fair warning to all readers. I am not a professional psychologist or someone who can even be considered an expert on that of which I write here.

I am only a humble boy, with seven years of experience in service to a Dominant Woman, whom I love very deeply. I can only share my experiences and the things I have learnt from them. I shall happily share my thoughts on various matters and open them here for discussion. I welcome all questions and comments, whether the writers agree or disagree with what I have said.

Perhaps we may all learn something and benefit from one another? That is my hope.

Thank you again my sister sub. :)

Be well,
Ryan

rexpansiverexpansive [Member]
2007-06-21 @ 11:26

I am thinking that this stuff is not healthy - and you're bringing a child into the world to be conditioned by this messed up dynamic?

You may well have a desire to be submissive all the time and find some kind of satisfaction in it. But you probably don't need me to tell you this probably goes back to deep seated psychological reasons in yourself, probably due to your own early childhood experiences.

Please do think about what you're doing and how your relationship is going to affect the child.

RGray1981RGray1981 pro
2007-06-21 @ 13:10

Dear Rexpansive,

Thank you for your comments and concerns. I am pleased to make your acquaintance via blog.co.uk.

In response to your concerns may I say that MsV, Michael and myself do not feel that we are involved in a 'messed up dynamic'. We live quite peacefully and happily rather like what you probably consider a normal family. It is a loving environment, where the three people involved do deeply care for one another.

Please let me draw your attention to another valid point.

In society, for many, many years and even yet today, it is sometimes deemed acceptable for a woman to do as her husband says. Is it not true that the word obey was once a part of the woman's wedding vow to her husband? It was not thought odd that the woman should have to obey the man. So I suppose my question is: Why is so much exception taken to a man deeply cherishing and obeying the woman he loves?

I do understand your difficulty in coming to terms with our lifestyle. I will acknowledge that it is an alternative to the old ways of thinking.

With regard to our daughter... Celestia will be brought up in a home where the Mother and father deeply love one another. They will (and do, even now before Her birth) love Her unconditionally. I do not believe that it will be odd for Her to be born to a strong woman and a father who is humble and caring. In fact, I am certain She will have far more stability than some of her peers.

I am open to hearing your specific concerns, rexpansive. In fact, I would be most interested to know what worries you so.

Respectfully,
Ryan

RGray1981RGray1981 pro
2007-06-21 @ 13:18

I neglected to address your statement that my choice to submit to MsV is a result of some deepseated issues from my childhood.

:)

I have a lovely family and had an extremely charmed childhood as the only child of my parents. They tried for a dozen years before finally managing to conceive me. You probably don't need me to tell you that I was very blessed. Both are unique and loving individuals and the three of us are very close.

Ryan

AbileneAbilene pro
2007-06-21 @ 13:33

" ...... this probably goes back to deep seated psychological reasons in yourself, probably due to your own early childhood experiences."

* rolls eyes *

Are you kidding me? Let me guess, you have read a few books, watched a few daytime shows and now you are an expert as to why people are the way they are.

Ted Bundy had a normal upbringing and uneventful childhood but went on to become a rapist and mass murderer.

I could continue and fill Ryans blog with examples that contradict your narrow theory but I shall not.

The problem I think is that society has such a blinkered view on the D/s dynamic and how it is conducted. Do you think that Ms V is going to walk Ryan around on a leash in front of their daughter at the grocery store? I should imagine that it will be no different than your life ... do you have sex in front of your kids? No. I can't imagine that Ms V, Ryan or Michael will.

Please do try to be a little more open minded before making such sweeping accusations.

Regards Abi.

p.s. Ryan, sorry.

RGray1981RGray1981 pro
2007-06-21 @ 15:09

Dear Abi,

Dear friend, do not apologise. Your support is very much appreciated and your points are well taken. :)

I am not quite certain why people outside of our lifestyle seem to think that as 'perverts' we are consumed with all things sexual and are constantly 'at it'. Lol, do you not also find this common assumption amusing?

Smiles,
Ryan

AbileneAbilene pro
2007-06-21 @ 15:51

Ryan,

I am finding that some men assume just because I like pain that I like for anyone to inflict it. I find that some women think I must be weak for needing the control aspect.

To be a submissive is hardly a weak thing. In fact I feel you have to be very mentally strong and stable to be able to go through the things we go through.

Your friend, Abi

Very interesting post (and I'm looking forward to your future posts) - and also VERY interesting comments, especially your first reply to Rexpansive. Too bad he didn't comment back, I would have liked to hear (read) his stance on the traditional, "obeying" woman's role.

Excellent blog!

MichaelDavidMichaelDavid [Member]
2007-06-24 @ 12:01

::sittin in the corner.. .. waitin not to be on ryans shit list nemore:: :(

phinebootyphinebooty [Member]
2007-06-25 @ 13:20

a very enlightening post Ryan, thank you. do you ever think about the possibility of MissV deciding to terminate the relationship? have the two of you worked out what would happen if she decided she didnt want you as her alpha anymore?

My "almost-slave" has disappeared. i think he is going thru something. it's my reluctance to completely dominate him that wounds him i think

Tanomar [Visitor]

2007-07-14 @ 17:17

Interesting vein for your blog to take. I've been out on holiday for a bit, so I'm catching up.
There are other, perhaps more "normal" dynamics than lifestyle and pro-domme. In the states, this tends toward "parties" and/or so-called "public" interaction (public as in an organization or hosted event). Perhaps people think of this as akin to the dating scene, but there are both dommes and subs who primarily interact in this way. I suspect in other areas of the world, additional "outlets" for ones needs can be found.
I think many new subs enter the bdsm world neither through the pro-domme nor the lifestyle route. I'd find it interesting to hear views about this.

RGray1981RGray1981 pro
2007-07-15 @ 10:05

Thank you, Tan, for your comment. You have a great deal more experience than I in the realm of our chosen lifestyle and I am quite interested in what you have to say.

Would you believe that I have only attended four public events in my life? My experience is obviously limited on that front therefore I cannot address it properly, much the same way I barely managed to address the true workings of Pro Dominance. As I stated in my entry, I have no personal experience of that at all.

May I ask, what is the feel of these parties in the states? How does a typical play party unfold from start to finish there? It has been literally years since my last experience. It was before meeting MsV when I was eighteen years of age.

I would warmly welcome an article written by you for posting here, if you would care to favour us with the information. It would be of great interest to me and I'm quite certain it would be to others here as well.

Kind Regards to you and your Mistress,
Ryan

Vintage 1049 [Visitor]

2007-09-07 @ 16:23

Hello Ryan,

I got to this rather late but found this a very interesting post as I am going through the transition stage from submitting to a series of Pro Dommes to submission to one Lifestyle Domme.

For many years I visited Pros, some many times and some only once. Your assessment of the dynamics in a Pro relationship are very accurate, given that you have never visited a Pro. The sub is in charge of the overall relationship. The Pro will usually decide what goes on in session but if she does not give him what he is looking for it will not be long before he goes elsewhere. The fantasy of total control by the Domme may be realised within the session but I do not think it can ever become reality for very long.

I have got into discussions on message boards with Pros who argue, and probably believe, that they are the ones in charge but in reality it is the paying customer who will take his custom elsewhere if he is not getting the service he is looking for. In the final instance it is about the sub obtaining gratification in the way he wants and I would suggest only rarely about the wants and needs of the Pro.

I had never really thought about meeting a Lifestyle Domme, other than to think it would be nice not to have to pay for the service. What I had not appreciated was that the rules change completely.

I first met my Domme just under a year ago .She was experimenting as a Pro although she is essentially lifestyle. We hit it off and gradually things have changed to such an extent that I am to receive her collar in the next few weeks.

Absolute trust is essential on both side. I trusted her from the start and opened up to her very quickly. My trust in her is total. She trusts me too. Inevitably I have learned things about her personal life and circumstances, most of it freely volunteered by her, but not even she could torture this information from me…..well she probably could.

I found that for me there were two distinct stages. The first thing I had to get over and found very hard to understand was Why is this Goddess interested in me? It was very difficult to accept and she had to reassure me many times that what we were embarking on was a two way process. She was enjoying it too, otherwise why would she bother? I still have my moments wondering but have at last largely accepted that I am one extremely lucky guy. It has taken me several months to get to this state of acceptance but I needed to get over this insecurity before I could begin to move to the next and most important stage.

It has happened gradually as I began to realise that it was now not going to be a case of what I want but of what she wants. First was the acceptance and this was followed by an absolute and complete desire to please her and only her. That for me is now paramount. My object in life is to obey her even if I do not enjoy what she wants me to do. It is totally about what she wants. I exist for her, to serve, to protect and to please to enhance her quality of life.

She has said that there will be rewards because she happens to enjoy some of the things I like but for me that is no longer the point. The whole dynamic of the relationship has been turned on its head. I cannot envisage visiting a Pro again. I will wear her collar with pride and my goal is to make her proud of me too.

Vintage 1049

RGray1981RGray1981 pro
2007-09-07 @ 17:31

Vintage,

I smile and am touched as I read your very sincere comment.

It is seldom, outside of our network, that I have encountered lifestyle submissives who fully understand what a life of complete service encompasses. There are a few but not many.

I understand the feelings of unworthiness. I often felt that and still do in those moments of imperfection on my part. It is a loving dynamic though, in which what the Domme and the boy bring to it are fitting and pleasing to both. They are in harmony when it is right. And when it is right there is nothing more glorious in all the world.

I am ever so pleased for you and do hope that you might consider, if your Mistress allows it, corresponding with me via emails. I should be deeply interested to hear of your further experiences along the way.

Faithfully,
Ryan

The Other MsV [Visitor]

2007-09-28 @ 08:19

I just wanted to pop a note to say how much I enjoyed reading your blog and wish to link it to my website at some stage if that is alright with your Lady. BDSM journeys are that much more interesting when the experience is shared with fellow travellers ;-) so yes I would be happy for Vintage 1049 (I like that btw!) to correspond with you.

Assignment well done! ;-)

V

RGray1981RGray1981 pro
2007-09-30 @ 16:44

Dear Ms V (owner of the boy, Vintage1049),

Thank You for Your kind words and compliments. It is a delight to hear that You have enjoyed what I've written of my experience in service to Ms Victoria.

I am honoured at the suggestion that my blog be linked to Your website. If it is not be too inconvenient, Mistress requires a link to Your site before She will grant permission. If this is acceptable to You, please feel free to email Her at MzVelvetRain@aol.com.

It shall be a pleasure to come to know Vintage. He seems quite a sincere and eloquent boy. We seem to share the same principles with regard to service and submission and this should form a firm foundation for our friendship.

Again, my humble appreciation for Your graciousness, Ms.

With Respect Always,
C.R.B. Gray

Vintage 1049 [Visitor]

2007-09-28 @ 12:10

Hi Ryan

Permission to correspond by email given above!

You have my email address, please get in touch.

Vintage 1049

RGray1981RGray1981 pro
2007-09-30 @ 16:47

Vintage,

I am quite pleased that the Ladies have consented to our becoming friends. I shall be in touch with you via email.

Ryan

Violet [Visitor]

2007-10-01 @ 08:17

Hello Ryan.

I just wanted to write to say I had written to the address you provided but it gave me a permanent failure error as follows :

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification

Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:

MzVelvetRain@aol.com.

Technical details of permanent failure:
PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 13): 550 MAILBOX NOT FOUND

Ordinarily I would take this to private but apart from commenting on your blog alas I am unable to get in touch via any other means.

Sincerely

V

RGray1981RGray1981 pro
2007-10-01 @ 19:54

Ms,

I do most sincerely apologise. Ms Victoria had Her email set to receive mail only from those on Her current list. She informs me that You have now been added to said list.

We were able to access Your website. I found it most interesting. I believe permission will be forthcoming. Thank You for the honour, Ms. I am humbled and pleased to find favour with You.

Ryan

tuki [Visitor]

2008-07-21 @ 01:37

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